Moms, Mats and Manuscripts
Moms, Mats and Manuscripts is a podcast hosted by Ksenia Volkova Tomaz, a former molecular biologist, yoga teacher and mindset coach for scientists, and mom. This is a space for honest, unpolished conversations about the parts of academia and ambition we don’t talk about enough.
Here, we explore the mental and emotional load of being a young scientist or high-achieving woman: the pressure to constantly produce, the identity crises, the inner critic, the fear of slowing down, the guilt around rest, the invisible labour of motherhood, and the messy process of redefining success on your own terms.
I share personal stories, science-backed insights, and yoga-psychology tools to help you navigate burnout, self-worth, boundaries, and the overwhelming push to “do more.”
Think of this space as a friend's couch, where you can have a cup of coffee, relax, exhale and be seen.
Moms, Mats and Manuscripts
S3E15 - Science, startups, and sanity: finding balance while wearing many hats with Dr Asya Martirosyan
In this episode of Moms, Mats, and Manuscripts, Ksenia sits down with Dr Asya Martirosyan to explore the highs and lows of life in academia, the pressures of PhD and postdoc work, and how she rediscovered her love for science when freed from external expectations.
We dive into:
The mental and emotional toll of PhD life and academic pressure;
How cultural factors affect the way we work, perceive criticism and show up in academia;
Rediscovering curiosity and doing science for the sake of science;
Transitioning from academia to entrepreneurship while staying grounded in rigorous research;
Dr Asya’s journey with her startup, AuroraFit, and how she’s bringing safe, science-backed longevity treatments to people;
Balancing passion projects, career, and personal life while protecting mental health.
If you’re an early-career researcher struggling with stress, self-worth, or imposter syndrome, or wondering what's next, this episode offers insight, encouragement, and inspiration from someone who has lived through it and come out thriving.
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Asya's info:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-asya-martirosyan/
Aurora Fit: https://aurorafit.de/
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Let's hang out! 🎙️ Follow Moms, Mats, and Manuscripts for more conversations on academia, motherhood, and mindful living. And if this episode sparked something in you, don't forget to like and share our podcast so that more people can join our coffee-fueled chats!
I'd also love to hear your thoughts and questions, and if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line.
We're also on Instagram:
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Reach out: moms.mats.manuscripts@gmail.com
Then I need to figure out how do I see your introduction and also you and also kinda look at the camera. So I have to look in the three different directions.
Speaker:Oh good. I mean you don't have to look at me. Do you? You do you. I mean I want to look at you. Look at you. Yeah, we got this. Come on. It's gonna be just like a friend talking.
Speaker 3:Okay, so let's let's get into it. I think the the friendly vibe is what we're going for. Hi friends, welcome back to Mum's Madison Manuscripts. Grab your coffee, your tea, your bottle of water, maybe, and settle in. Today I'm chatting to my wonderful friend Asia Martyrasan, and we are diving into juggling multiple roles, still staying in academia, even after maybe some struggles during PhD, startups, everything in between, and trying not to lose your mind, not to lose your sanity while she's wearing so many hats. So I want to talk to her about that. But let me first introduce her properly. She works at, do we pronounce it correctly, CCAD?
Speaker 1:Yeah, very good.
Speaker 3:Exactly. CCAD.
Speaker:I should have asked her at the beginning. Oh, good. It's like very intuitive.
Speaker 3:She works at CCAD Cologne, which where she studies genome stability, mitochondrial health, and factors that enable some species to live remarkably long lives. Beyond the lab, Asi is the founder and CEO of Aurora Fit, a biotech startup, developing non-invasive UV-based technology to reset metabolism and improve health spanning. She leads the Cologne chapter of Longevity Biotech Fellowship, connecting scientists, entrepreneurs, and dreamers who want to build the future of longevity. And she is also a longevity consultant and health specialist in a soon-to-be-merging, exciting longevity startup. So she's balancing all these things and well, not going crazy with so many things in mind and so many hats that she's wearing. And so this is exactly what I want to discuss.
Speaker:How you're managing. The word is trying. So I'm from Armenia, and uh my family was always part of science, part of kind of medical uh sciences. And my dad was very passionate about um science in general, but he was also um doing pharmacology. So also at some point, so the whole kind of scientific spark came from my dad and also from my mom, uh, but particularly, you know, like this very philosophical talks when you're a kid. And I remember very clearly when once my dad said, you know, the beauty of science is when you're doing an experiment and you get to know one piece of information that seven billion people on earth doesn't know about it. And I for me it was just such a like a great way of putting uh you know what what is science and what is like this discovery is all about. So I think it started pretty early on when um kind of kind of educated by my dad. Um and yeah, and I started, so I did my bachelor in Armenia, but of course, um, you know, like the level of education, at least back in 2009, wasn't the greatest. So I mean, like natural next step was actually for me to look for master programs in Europe. So that's how I end up in Europe. I was interested in evolutionary biology because you know, nothing makes sense unless it's in the light of evolution. Um, but soon in my, I think if I'm not mistaken, on the second semester, I was kind of doing an internship actually here in Cologne about um experimental longevity science, basically, experimental and evolutionary longevity, which was absolutely amazing. And that's kind of like that was something that I found that was resonating with me so well, and the whole idea of why some you know animals live long, some live short, why people live just 80 years and we always suffer in the last 10, 20 years of our lives. So that kind of really like spoke to me, and since that point on, I was just very drawn to the whole longevity idea of like uh living healthier, longer, and yeah. So I end up doing my PhD in Germany. Uh well, before PhD, I was also in Portugal, so it's been like uh you know, bits and pieces everywhere. Um, but yeah, basically, especially during my PhD, I mean, like any other PhD, I think was quite tough because you know, like especially in molecular biology, it's a lot of work. Um, but I guess what was kind of pushing me to go further and not lose my mind is really like a kind of bigger picture what I was doing. And I was always dreaming, like, okay, you know, I have to think about bigger picture because otherwise it doesn't make sense to go and pipe it, you know, seven, eight hours straight every day in the best case scenario and not say even overnight. So there was always like some sort of bigger picture of what to do next and how bring science to people. And that's why after PhD, I was like very, you know, passionate about bringing the discovery that I did during my PhD to turn it to a company, turn it to a treatment, and basically seeing it kind of finally somehow helping people one way or another. So I think really not losing the bigger picture helped me a lot because you always have like this. I always had like this philosophical romanticized view of science. Of course, that's not true. You always like end up uh you know, pipetting uh yeah, hours and hours and pulling all nighters and these time points. I mean, it's it's pretty tough, that's for sure. And I think that what kept kept me sane was really thinking that I want that moment in my life when uh I will find out about something that seven billion people had no idea. So I guess that was like this sort of romanticizing science, but yeah, it worked so far.
Speaker 3:So yeah, and we we all start with this starry-eyed uh perspective, right? We are all very excited when we begin this journey, we dream big, and yeah, but apart from you having something and finding out something that seven billion people don't know about, so apart from just discovering some like tiny maybe, or you know, in the big picture of things of life, tiny, but for you, very significant piece of information is one thing, but also at the same time, you have something that can actually be translated into hopefully improvements in human life and human health, and that's pretty amazing. I think that's maybe the motivation that a lot of people in basic science might might lack and might miss because this is something that I felt that I this was my why at the beginning that I wanted to kind of help people eventually, but I felt so disconnected from it and so far away from it in basic science that yeah, it's it's pretty awesome that you managed to discover something that could be turned into a company. So let's backtrack from that a little bit. And I'm curious to know more about your PhD journey and the ups and downs, the struggles, the experience, like what was your experience like? What was um yeah, just what I want to share?
Speaker:Yeah, I would say, I mean, I would say like any other PhD, it was very tough for sure. But then comes like the personal component and how tough you are on yourself, and then comes the another layer, which is the imposter syndrome, then comes another layer where you know, like recently I started thinking about it quite often, and I think the cultural component was such a big deal for me as well, but I will explain what I mean by that. So, I mean, I'm a post-Soviet Union kid, and I grew up in the this environment that you know ambitions are the most important, and you're being measured by your success and not failures. That cannot be like it's not part of the equation that doesn't happen to us. And I think it took me quite some time, especially during the third year of my PhD when everything got too tough, and that was the main component that I realized myself that was playing a huge role of my PhD being even more miserable. I mean, of course, you know, PhD is all about hard work and it's all about, you know, putting your maximum, which makes sense, and everybody does it, right? But there always is some sort of layers that come within the personality, or comes within your luggage or like your history. And for me personally, it was one of the biggest components that I was raised to always be like 110, 120%, do all my best because yeah, if you failed, then you just didn't work hard enough, you know. It was always like this uh yeah, like this very horrible voice that was bullying. I mean, you basically bully yourself, right? That and sometimes looking back, and of course it's normal that during PhD you kind of demonize your supervisor, you demonize your, I don't know, the tech company. I hope my supervisor Maria doesn't hear this, but I I uh she's amazing, of course, and great scientist. But this is kind of a normal pattern that PhDs do, right? Um, but kind of doing like a better analysis of myself, I realized that besides the fact that academia is also very unhealthy, and in academia there is no culture of you know, failure, like it's really hard to talk about the experiments that didn't work because you always have to show something that worked, something that was great, something that is not redundant, something is new. And on top of it, having this sort of cultural background where you are taught that if something failed, it's it's always your fault. It's like you just didn't do enough. I think that is a horrible mix of things. And for me personally, that was like a yeah massive catalog catalysator of the whole you know problematic points of my PhD where I couldn't balance my life with my work, that was impossible, that didn't even exist. I don't think that they would exist because when there are people who would fail the experiment because nature didn't work, or I don't know, the buffer, you know, the pH was not correct, or the machine didn't work, it can be anything. And that's the crazy part of science that it can be absolutely anything. And um, when there would be people would take their failure, they would go sleep on it, come to the next morning, try to, you know, troubleshoot and find the best way. Because of all this, I feel like background components, the first thing I would do, I would just like bully myself to it, that it was my fault, that it went wrong. And instead of just trying to take a step back, have like a you know, breath and like breathe in and breathe out, and try to think what to do next, I would just start like you know, planning three more experiments just to make sure that I'm doing absolute my best because I failed in the first place, and that's I think a massive problem. And I think this is where also PhD students are not really taught how to deal with these things because the whole, you know, this publish or perish situation still exists in academia, and this is still a massive issue where you are a PhD and you know that your thesis or any publication that comes out of your PhD, that's like a definition of you as a scientist, which is so wrong. But unfortunately, we exist in this very broken, in a way, system. And when you have that, you have that pressure, you have, you know, you also have supervisor that she has or he has those other pressures of grants. There's always like this mix of so much heated up emotions and feelings that it's so hard to find the way to keep your sanity. And I'm not even talking about really finding some sort of balance. It was always like this this very vicious cycle of something doesn't work, and then you just like self-bully and then overwork, overwork because you think that's the only answer to the failure, which slowly with time you realize that it's not actually true. And I I mean, um, during my third year, I think for me it was like the wake-up call where I was just getting sick constantly. I think there was like this period of three months where I was just not getting better, and I think that was a moment where I was like, okay, I need to do something about it. And this is luckily when I also found out about you, and then I started like looking at the videos, trying to also, you know, like talk to myself nicely. And that that was the hardest thing, I would say. And this is also because of so much pressure of the academic world, but also some sort of cultural thing, or like this personal thing of like self-bullying until you get somewhere. So I think that my PhD was yeah, kind of clueless first two years because you're doing absolutely everything to find some phenotype or whatever. And then on the third and fourth year, this is like the pinnacle of stress, and all these problems just surface immediately. And this was actually also a breaking point for me. And I think I have I had several breaking points during these years when I was like, Yeah, I cannot do this anymore. And not only just mentally, physically, my body was just every time I would go to the lab, and it was not about uh supervision, it was not about lab colleagues or any of that, but physically, I it, you know, like your body was starting to talk to you very loudly, and to me, it was like physically, I was just falling every time I had to enter to the lab and start my experiment. So I think that was yeah, closer to third and fourth year, that was pretty tough. But I think slowly when we already had like something very interesting coming out, when that we could finally like kind of breathe that okay, we have something really cool here, and that bigger picture started again looking nice in your eyes, and then you're like, okay, and I really must say this is also some sort of privileged position because it's not always during PhD you will find something meaningful, and this is something that nobody tells you because you're trained that the PhD is this moment where you push the boundary of knowledge, but in reality it takes more than that, and I think we are not really aware of that before starting PhD. We think like, oh, we're just gonna go, we have okay, risky project, not so risky project, and both of them are going to work, but that's never the case, and it's really unfortunately, there is always the component of luck, and this never is communicated to PhD students, and this is so sad because when you have that notion, you're so much easier on yourself, but when you cannot talk about your failures, and then you have this environment where everybody's experiments work, everybody's lab meetings are brilliant, and then you're just sitting there with your failed three repeats and you don't know what to do with it. Um, yeah, it it was really discouraging, and I think that was really a problem of the system, and this was not helping at all. Wow, I hope I didn't like yeah, no, there's there's a lot of there's a lot of things that I can relate to.
Speaker 3:I can relate to the cultural aspect perfectly, understand you, like the self-bullying and like the fact that there is now our parents' voices in our heads that are saying, well, this didn't work, so maybe you messed up, maybe you fucked it up somehow. You are the problem. I can understand this perfectly well. And yeah, this is this is the work, right? That you have to kind of unpack this voice and and stop believing it eventually. And it's good that you, you know, managed, or maybe you are you know, you know, it's a work in progress always because you recognized it and you recognized it as part of the problem. And I also can very much relate to what you said, you're you're demonizing your supervisor and you're demonizing academia as a total. And obviously, academic culture is toxic and it sucks in a lot of ways, but also there are our own factors that come into play, and sometimes they just mesh with the academic pressure and with maybe toxic supervisors or everything, the pressure to publish or perish and everything just comes together in this perfect mixture that just makes it a very miserable experience.
Speaker:Unfortunately.
Speaker 3:That's the good news that we can kind of like and we can address it, at least part of the problem we can address, and we can see how maybe that then trickles down to making everything else better. I also wanted, since you mentioned demonizing your supervisor, hoping that she will not see this.
Speaker:I hope so too. I wanted to in a really good relationship. Actually, we are now co-founders of the startup, and I think our relationship dynamic changed over years a lot because now looking back, I also understand that you know I was such a responsibility for her, and she's also a post-Soviet Union person. So I think she was taking that responsibility so seriously that for her it was also important that none of her PhD students will fail. And luckily, I mean, three of us, at least in my generation, three of us end up having uh, you know, kind of a patentable discoveries that at some point also the other two will end up being companies. So just to like, you know, give a like a disclaimer, in case she's watching, that now it's it's it's a little bit different, but uh yeah, we can talk about it absolutely.
Speaker 3:I'm just wondering, so you also mentioned that yeah, she has a similar background of post-Soviet Union, so maybe the same voices, the same pressures also apply to her, and then she kind of translates that also in her management style. So what without you know, without being too in the court. What do you think? How how did her management her supervision play the role also in in your struggles?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean so I must say that we definitely had way more close supervision with her. And back in the day I was uh thinking that it's going to be hell.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm sorry, we call your thoughts.
Speaker 3:Oh, good, I love it, I love it. That's like how it's supposed to be. It happened yesterday when I was teaching a class. He comes in, he sits with me on the mat and starts doing the same thing that I am doing. I'm like, he learned how to do that.
Speaker:Like, I will come for extra time just for that.
Speaker 1:So cute.
Speaker:Okay, yeah, we're yeah, no, so I was I was just saying that I think like in terms of um supervising supervising style, that was definitely uh close supervision that at the time felt like, oh, I'm being, you know, like all the time controlled and I'm being like kind of overseen. Uh, but also honestly experiencing experiencing some other labs where the supervisor is never present, and looking at the PhD students that were actually just like in a free-falling, you know, like this free-floating state. Looking back, I realized like, wow, okay, I never thought, but actually, this close supervision was even necessary when you're a PhD. I mean, you kind of can grow out of things and you kind of get out of your own body and just look at it more like in a helicopter view. But what I can tell that um I think just because both of us were from kind of post-Soviet mindset, and I personally, so I would always have like the voice of let's say my mom or like my family, right? That oh, you didn't do enough, then then it's then it's not good. And then throughout life, I feel like I was just exchanging those figures in my mind. And in this case, my relationship with my supervisor, I kind of swapped my mom's role with her, and I think that also didn't help at all. And this was like this deep problematic situation where she would be disappointed or she would not be happy with the data, which happens, it's okay. But then the dynamic was so different, like it was very weird because in the end of the day, I was taking her like she's you know, like if she's disappointed, it would affect me the same way, like as if my mother was disappointed. And I don't know if it was because both of us end up in that dynamic because both of us have very cultural similarities, or at some point I put her in my mind in that position, but it really not helped our like relationship as a supervisor and a student because the moment she was that happy, which happens, of course, and she was also a junior PI during that time, so she had also massive pressures on her, and I think that also didn't help where she couldn't maybe find the nicest words to express that she didn't like the data or something didn't happen, so that was a massive clash. So she would not be happy with something, and then I would take it like it's the end of the world because this kind of a mom figure was not happy with me, and then this would just aggravate every kind of toxic bullying that I had already going on. So, and I think that the the problem was maybe that it was maybe I didn't make it visible, so because you know, also in our cultures, right? Like the moment you get some sort of uh you know feedback, you're just like, okay, you know, I will do it, and that's it. Like you you will never give back or you will never say what's going on, like you will never talk about your emotions because vulnerability is out of question. Exactly. And I think like somehow we end up in this dynamic where she would be not happy with the data, and then I would take it so deeply, you know, and then I never will say that you know, maybe this doesn't work for me, maybe it would make sense if we like change something, so we just end up locked in this sort of toxic dynamic both ways, and I was taking it a lot really badly on myself as well. But I must say, um, I personally noticed a massive, massive change of understanding when she actually became a mom. Very yeah, this was very interesting to me that um the moment she uh had her baby, I think also a lot of things got much smoother. So, like the the understanding. So before everything was like, you know, you do this, after this, you do that, after that you do this, and da-da-da-da. But after that, a lot of things changed. So it was more like, okay, if you manage, go for it. If you don't manage, it's fine, you can do it the next week. Like the world will not, you know, collapse if you didn't do that one experiment over the weekend, so you can actually, you know, like have some rest. So I think that also some sort of was a big change in our relationship. But I also must say it's really looking back, it was also a lot the cultural part was playing a big role because I wouldn't, in my uh view or in my observation, um, this was not so much obvious when we were having other, let's say, students that were from not Soviet Union, so we were understanding each other very nicely, like very well, because we were in the same wave, but the wave was very toxic. So this was not helping at all, and this is also like absolutely deepening every single problem that I had in my mind, so it was never helping me to actually, you know, feel like okay, this is a failure, but it's fine, it's not the end of the world. It was always like, no, it's a failure. No, I try 10 other experiments until it works out. So yeah, I think that was a very massive issue.
Speaker 3:It's interesting that yeah, you you mentioned that for other students it would not be so obvious, or at least maybe from your perspective, it didn't seem that this was happening to the same extent. Like when, you know, when they don't have as much maybe inner bullying monologue, and then that doesn't play the the feedback from the supervisor, doesn't play into this inner monologue as much, or maybe they just don't take it as personally as like she's disappointed with data, but I'm gonna think she's disappointed with me as a person, right?
Speaker:So exactly, yeah, exactly. Like somehow you always uh you know extrapolate things completely differently just because you are wired differently. I also have seen we had also a lot of students where I would be in the meeting where the data is really bad, and then I can see there's a you know like negative vibe in general in the lab meeting, but then we will get out of that lab meeting, and if it was me, I would be mortified. I would just like sleep in the lab the next week just to make sure that I did everything much better to just make sure the data is good. But then I we would have students that they they were so equipped of like kind of disassociating themselves from that, you know, like they're like, okay, the data is bad, I will start next week and I will plan the next experiment. So they would never take it so massively on there, so they would really nicely disassociate from the scenario because that's a data and that's like my science, but that's me. And I was amazed by this because for me it was just unreachable. It's like this then state that never happens, you know. And I think that's that's really I mean, I don't want to like blame everything into culture, but I think it's also a lot of training of you know, self-reflection and trying to find the best way how to deal with the situation because some people are really nicely equipped, but some people like me had to go the tough way to learn it step by step, and this was this was a hell of a journey.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, we we are culturally, let's say, we're also not really trained to kind of think about it and look deeper within and think about our patterns and like why is that and why do I think this way? Why do I talk so much shit to myself and so on? And also, I don't know, academia is kind of also training you a little bit to be this way and to be very critical because you have to look at everything at everything you do very critically, and so you're sort of if you're not careful and you are sort of going to start, or you might start to look even at yourself super critically with this like lens of you know, huge magnifying glass of like what do I need to change? What do I need to optimize? Where do I need to troubleshoot myself as well? So it's yeah, academia plus culture is a very important mix in your case. I can see that now.
Speaker 1:We have some culprits too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you thought about quitting a lot?
Speaker:Actually, a lot. I don't know if I would be like very self-critical. I wouldn't say because I was very stub-born or I was very goal-oriented, but maybe more, you know, just like, oh my god, I started it, so I cannot like for me, there was no alternative, and I don't think that was correct. I think I had different alternatives, and I could pursue the alternatives, but for some reason it was just this you started one thing, and again, culturally, you're educated, you're raised like that, that you started, you have to finish it. Oh, yeah. And yeah, I mean, every time I would think about yeah, quitting, I would be like, Oh my god, what I'm going to tell my parents. Like, what's going on? And you know, again, this. whole thing of like kind of masking your own emotions so every time I would be asked how am I and I'd be like well I mean science it's okay it's some days are good some days are bad but never you you you were never like kind of given the space also to complain or given the space to really like talk about it and with your colleagues like all of you are in the same shape so basically it doesn't matter if you complain actually I realized that when we complained even more when we were like with our colleagues that was dragging me down even more because that was like I realized at some point it helps you because you kind of get bonded by trauma with your colleagues but later it was just affecting me too much because then it was just like all the time complaining and just not doing anything about it and then just going back and pipetting. So at some point I also try to kind of minimize that noise and be like okay I try to focus on myself I try to focus on my wellbeing and you know let's see what happens. But I I've thought a lot about quitting but I guess it was just really maybe in a way also the stopwardness for sure because I was like no I I have to show that I can do it. It was a little bit toxic situation. And maybe yeah this this feeling of I don't want to explore alternatives because in my mind that was it I have to do it looking back I still don't know why I was just so focused to you know finish it because in my mind otherwise like my whole plan of life will just fall apart if I quit and like you basically take that one you know like puzzle piece and everything would fall off. I don't know why I was thinking like that. I guess that was also easy because I had a plan and I didn't want to diverge from it because it was just like this bulletproof kind of period that I designed for myself. So if I take one thing out of it I I was too afraid that some like everything will go to shit. And I think that was the reason why it was keep going basically I mean yeah of course we can say like sake of science and all the amazing things that you learn and things that you can do but on a day-to-day basis it just gets sometimes so tough that the the bigger picture of science doesn't help anymore and like you know this bigger notion of like helping people it also doesn't help much so it either really boils down to a point either you have to suck it up and go through it or you don't suck it up and go through it which I I I honestly think like when your um example happened and you told me that you're quitting I was so amazed by the courage you had really like for me personally that was just oh my I was like wow I wish I was so courageous and I wasn't and I think that was more and then I was like okay this is my I don't think I want to look for alternatives so which means I have to power through it and be done with it. And I think unfortunately a lot of PhDs don't know that they're alternatives. I also learn about so many alternatives by the end of my PhD when I started exploring the whole startup environment entrepreneurship and you know even like alternative uh things like you know being a consultant or doing some editorial work and these things at least in my case I was never exposed to like you're in your bubble of everybody coming to work doing their best getting their papers published and going for the next best step which is postdoc or whatever you decide right or industry in the best case scenario. So I think this was really at least in my time there was a really massive lack of information and you just simply don't get exposed to this. I mean now as a postdoc I also try whenever I have chance to talk to PhDs that not that to convince them to quit academia absolutely not but to just make sure that they know the options and they will do an informed decision about their future because during my period of PhD I didn't have much and much examples as well I think the first person that I like I saw as an example who quit the PhD and decided to pursue what really makes them really happy was you and there was not so many people and unfortunately of course and but now finally people are being way more vocal about the whole PhD experience and you know really doing a podcast where you show that there are alternatives or there are like different kinds of ways how the PhD went through I think that's so valuable because I mean I wish your podcast existed when I was still a PhD because you know it will give you a notion. I mean it will give you some sort of bigger picture which I I unfortunately didn't have back then. So I was like I have to suck it up because there is that much.
Speaker 3:I mean I I can very much like even though my my story is that of supposedly courage but it also took me time to see it as courageous. But I I also can relate to feeling like I put so much time into it so I can interquit I need to push through I need to sug it up like it's it's I think a very common story and and yeah definitely people don't know that this is an option and also there is so many things outside the sort of this tunnel vision of like okay bachelor master or maybe skipping a master PhD postdoc and then having a lab or maybe going to industry selling your soul to industry to the to the dark side to the dark side and that's that's not true and there is also happiness outside of scientists.
Speaker:Yeah so yeah it is I think there's a lot of like this tunnel vision you know like this horse vision when you see left and right and I mean I I sometimes I think like it's this evil plan just to keep scientists in academia because if they find out that there is more than more than academia I think nobody would agree to go through this because it's tough. It's really tough without no guarantee because you're gambling with nature and you have this hypothesis but most of the time they are wrong and this is so common especially during PhD. I think PhD really makes you I I I'm very grateful because it makes you very resilient that's for sure and it makes you you know so tough for the next stages of your life but at what cost is it really necessary exactly at what cost and these are things people have to ask them when they are you know when they are starting the PhD and I hope they will ask because I was not I was just like wow I'm going for science this is the best thing could have ever happened to me because yeah you're like kind of in this bubble right like I remember my dad when we were talking the first time and was like so how is the lab and I was telling all these great machines we have and everything and then I was like yeah but like it's already 8 p.m so I will go home and my dad was like what do you mean that true scientists should be sleeping in that lab and then I was like oh yes that's so true I in order to be a scientist I have to be like you know pulling old nighters and then I was like oh no the the understanding of true scientists have changed and you know society have changed and science have changed and people have to kind of start you know what you know walking with the same pace all the changes. I I love your dad but this just me so much breaks straight to my heart I know I know but he's still like you know like he was this Soviet scientist that that they never thought about buy buying an apartment they never thought about having the capital because the government will give it to them the government will support you and they give you like this basic amazing life where then you can strive for something great and then you know which I get it yeah I mean if everything would be also in place maybe I would be also like you know just thinking about the beauty of science and things like this but it doesn't work like this. I mean society have changed and you know a lot of things have changed and unfortunately it's not like that.
Speaker 3:And my dad was used to that my mom was taking care of us and then he was just like this amazing scientist going into it extra the woman is holding down the front at home and you yeah you you are free to to do what you yeah well the world definitely has changed so absolutely but that kind of in a way brings me to my next question like respectfully why are you still in academia that's a good point you are you are one of the very few people honestly who have stayed even despite like all the struggles and mental health issues and toxicity amplified by the background and cultural um specifics most of the people I know they finish their PhD if they finish and they are like I cannot get out of here fast enough.
Speaker:So I'm almost surprised and also amazed that you decided to stay why what has changed in your attitude what has changed in your work life balance or ability to balance yeah why it's like you know with the spicy food that hurts but you still go it's so good exactly there's always this joke that uh you know it's one of the character says I have a problem and it's me I have a problem well no I I mean I'm going to tell you something that it might sound very crazy but I think it's been the first time I I don't want to say ever but really truly first and foundational time where I do science for the sake of science and not for getting a degree not because I want to become a professor I want to be a PI. So I it and I think that changed because I finally get to know my options. So when the startup thing started so I was like okay I want to do this on the side because I'm also new and we don't know if it will work out so this is something that you know kind of goes in the background either way that doesn't take so much time and then I'm managing it on the side and that gave me such a freedom of choice because I have that option kind of brewing in the background let's put it this way because I knew I'm not I'm not gonna be a PI. That's like something that I was very sure after my PhD that was something I was absolutely a hundred percent sure because yeah seeing all the struggles of my PI and like all the problems and all the yeah it's it's not worth it because at some point you just you're a bureaucrat you just don't do science anymore unfortunately but the first time where I felt like I have options I don't have pressures and finally I can enjoy science and that's why I decided to give it a chance to the postdoc that I came to cologne I mean the story of me getting this postdoc it was also a little bit comical to be completely honest because um I got I got an offer through Twitter and that was very interesting. But uh so the supervisor that I have now used to be a supervisor of my previous supervisor. So my previous supervisor used to be a postdoc in this lab and then we kind of did like a turnover of uh generations but what I like um a lot in this lab is that when I joined I was very clear that I just want to pursue the projects that I'm passionate about because otherwise nothing can push me to come to the lab and pipe it. I mean really like now I finally got to the point where I have quite a few options that they're always there. So I can I have like this some sort of um how to say uh buffer zones that I set up for myself. So that lets me and allows me and I I would say this is very privileged situation. I mean it's not always the case but those possibilities allow me to finally do science for the sake of really just this romanticized science. I'm not doing it because I mean eventually I want to obviously publish and I think it will be really fun but I'm not doing it because I need a publication because after my postdoc I need that publication to be a PI. Absolutely not and I think that takes away so much pressure that I come to the lab so much more with so much motivation because I am still enjoying to do science especially to this space and that was so pity because during my PhD there were always deadlines there were always some sort of pressures that you have to you know go through. I think this postdoc and I've been doing it two years now I was like this kid in a candy short candy store because I was just like doing this crazy experiment and then jumping to this one. But this was really I mean also kudos to my uh you know current supervisor because he really led me to do it because in a lot of cases that might be not even possible. And I'm now working with that like I've never worked with that and it's like very insane. Yeah so you know when I was just like you know what I'm just gonna work with that and that's why I feel like I stayed because I didn't want to give up on academia before really experience experiencing things that I'm experiencing now. Where you just really come and you design your experiment you execute your experiment and you end up having really nice results and or not even not so nice results but you know it happens.
Speaker 3:It's so beautiful that what you said about doing you know first for the first time doing science about science you know and not about deadlines or publications or grants and it's such a pity indeed that in a PhD you kind of or not you necessarily but us people in general kind of lose track of that a little bit and do it for the sake of the career and well some people never get out of this and never do science for the sake of science or for the sake of curiosity for the sake of making the world better and they just kind of focus on the next thing and the next step and it's natural I guess but it's also a little bit sad.
Speaker:So I'm excited for you that you get to pursue science just for the sake of your passion and it's it's a Yeah no absolutely I mean we talk about my dad and the Soviet times I think it's like I mean I had to obviously build it for myself to have them some sort of like a foundation to be able to afford doing science for the sake of science because before you had it like in the government and then you were just very fun and everything was working pretty well for you. But yeah unfortunately again this is not always the case which is so sad because I mean it's complete I don't know it's not maybe completely different but it's very much pleasurable what you're doing when you're doing science without like this external unnecessary factors all the time like distracting you. And and I feel you're doing even better science because then you're just always not just you know publication focused but you're really just trying to look for something cool discover something cool and yeah but again unfortunately this is I was very lucky because of the whole situation with the company but if it wasn't like this yeah it would have been very yeah unfortunate for sure because I wouldn't stay in academia where I still need to follow this kind of course vision and be stressed and I mean in PhD you're stressed four years and then after that you get one publication in postdoc it gets shortened. So everybody just expecting that you have to be excellent but not in four but two years and then have like this horrible short kind of uh continuation of your contract and yeah it can be really exhausting as well so and I see it because I also have a lot of colleagues that are postdocs who want to become PIs and our life qualities are absolutely different unfortunately because you can see that it didn't change at all and it's still the same unfortunately I see well let's now switch gears a little bit and move on to your company your business and tell me about Aurorafit how did it come to life what it is a bit more maybe yeah of course yeah no worries I mean thank you for asking about it it's like my baby basically of course I have to ask exactly I mean uh yeah so Aurora Fit was based on the I I always feel like very weird to say discovery during my PhD but basically what we found out during my PhD. It's a discovery I I'm trying I'm trying you see like even in the level of words you still have to train yourself. But yeah so uh basically during my PhD I was looking for um non-invasive treatments that can improve the quality of life especially when you're young or even middle age or even late in life right because yeah at some point all of us are going to decline all of us are aging it's inevitable unfortunately and in the lab is interested in kind of non-invasive treatments and one of the cases was to try um different experiments with the specific wavelength of UVB light. I know it sounds very um you know like completely opposite what we've known about UVB light but we were again very lucky at this point because um what we basically did we repurposed the technology. So UVB treatments are actually very known in um in society so it's more than 20 years is used as a treatment for skin disorders for example for eczema psoriasis so it's actually non-invasive and we have a lot of data already in humans showing that it's um it's safe there is no cancer uh incidence nothing so it's actually very safe um in use already in humans so we were wondering how UV light can affect it how it can be non-invasive treatment and my personal direction was metabolism so long story short what we saw is that um UV light kind of tricks the body when you're shining we did like for example pre-treatment uh preclinical data on mice but we started with worms cells and then eventually with mice but basically in in nutshell what it does if you shine this UV light into the skin your body tricks to think that you're in uh uh in a state of dietary restriction so your body thinks that there is some stress going on because what happens is that the UV light biophysically affects mitochondrias and the mitochondrias get stressed and they uh temporarily get a fist from each other so they are not in this normal fused position they are a little bit stressed and what happens is that this stress uh pushes systematic response and then your liver decides like oh my body is in stress because my mitochondria is in stress which means I don't have enough energy so let me burn fat while my mitochondria is getting its shit together. So this is like this basically systematic response where you shine the light and it goes all the way to your liver and then it signals your fat your fat travels to your liver turns to ketone bodies and then you have these replenished energy levels and the ketone bodies also can be used by your brain and then within 12 hours all that fat that went to liver kind of washes out and then you also lose fat mass but also get uh healthy kind of from bad uh fat you get very healthy energy so this is basically we show mechanistically how the pathway works and we showed it also in cells in C elegans and eventually in mice as well so and yeah so we were also lucky in the sense that the technology already exists so what we are doing currently is uh we have a collaboration with the clinic in Armenia actually where we are going to set up the treatment of the UV light and this is also very safe because the machines that were used by us are also used by people to treat these skin disorders. So you actually anybody can buy it and put it at home and start treatment. But in this case we are collaborating with the clinic where we will have our volunteers going and treating with a specific UV light, with a specific dose depending on their skin type etc all of these things. And then we are looking also on biomarkers that we know that molecularly are going to change and improve after the treatment and then we actually give this kind of control over your metabolic health to people because then let's say if you have I don't know high levels of triglycerides or you have high levels of bad cholesterol how to kind of increase decrease the level of this and then UV treatment can be one of them. And you know like when you have this sort of problems with your lipids this is also causal for any cardiovascular disease that is very common for example in Armenia and in the world in general then you can also alleviate symptoms for diabetes because then you're also kind of taking out all these bad fats and making it to energy so person can be more energized instead of just like you know gaining fat, etc so there are like a lot of promise with the treatment and the good thing is like it's non-invasive because it has been around for quite some time it's proven to be healthy and um useful for human for human use. So yeah now we are basically doing the first hopefully first treatments by the end of the year will already start in Armenia and once we have the data hopefully this will already yeah show by itself like the data will speak the loudest that's our hope.
Speaker 3:This is a very exciting time. Fingers crossed for you my dear um but okay so science aside it's a big shift also from academia and from being a researcher and then starting a startup and what do you think is like the mindset shift or the the challenges and how did you navigate them?
Speaker:That's a very good question. So I think of course there was always this complement of bigger picture blah blah blah making sure that you know you're bringing the kind of the from bench to bedside type of mindset was always there. But to be honest it and it will sound very I don't know maybe very negative but um so I started kind of getting into this whole space of longevity longevity treatment and starting to get to know who are you know people who are like more science-based methodologies etc and unfortunately I realized that in our field um of uh aging and longevity since it's also a very young field and also it has a lot of promise there is a lot of noise and a lot of unnecessary things and a lot of things that are claimed to be scientific but in reality they are not and this is very strong unfortunately I mean it's kind of a natural point because you know when when scientists are not vocal about science and they're just thinking about you know publishing these things happen. So there is like this vacuum that kind of get filled with so many loud inaccurate voices that the actual scientific reason is just like kind of set aside and it sounds maybe petty I don't know but um slowly when I got into the field more into longevity but entrepreneurship and this is where I became part of the longevity biotech fellowship to get more exposed to the ideas what people think about longevity how to bring it to people you realize that there is an absolute necessity of scientists actually taking over science and bringing it to people and that was a very very obvious gap that didn't exist years ago I mean it's still slowly changing but um that was really surprising to me because you would assume that it's directly a field of research where it directly impacts people directly causes so much kind of hype around different treatments causes so much you know excitement as well because people want to try and live better healthier and longer I mean it only makes sense but yeah with my experience I realized that there are almost no scientists there are almost no medical doctors and that has to be changed somehow and that was my massive motivation that I believe in the research because I work so hard on that research it's bulletproof and I'm I I'm sure that all the experimentations were done uh very critically scientifically properly and then you realize that okay this is the moment where I have the chance to actually bring a good quality science and help people and a lot of companies have a great value propositions they have great kind of incentive hypothesis whatsoever but there is a very weak science behind it and this should not be because this is directly will impact people because I mean you already seen I mean in social media in different places longevity is really becoming this next hype where people are just getting supplements because some rich guy told them that this supplement worked for him so it's going to work for you which is absolute madness right I mean and this is the moment where there has to be more like cautiousness that have to come from the side of the scientists but at the same time there also have to be flexibility from our side because when I got exposed to this kind of like environment of more startups entrepreneurship I realized that we are so trained to be very I don't want to say negative but very specific always like problem driven always very critical so we lose the whole idea why we're doing it and when you're you're kind of you see people who are not scientists but they are just this very motivated let's just do it you realize you miss this you really miss this sort of attitude because we are just like you know no no no I'm just doing my protein of interest for 20 years and I'm really happy but then you see there are people who are just getting millions of you know investments on companies that science doesn't really even work that way. And then you realize that it's very harmful and it has to be changed. And then I thought okay who is going to change and I'm not going to just sit there and be grumpy scientists and complain about this how things are bad uh bad so I just decided to do it myself. There is a there's a gap in communication right and and actually explaining what is true what is not true and you know if there is no excitement and no like yeah power and passion from the side of scientists this niche will be taken by somebody else who might not have the best interests of people with the scientists on their side yeah yeah so you are taking upon yourself also that role okay so how are you managing how are you managing to to to juggle so many things tell me your secrets um that's a very good question I want to start with this uh you know like this very fancy CEOs that I wake up at five and I meditate for 40 minutes then I take my organic matcha and like no um it's a very good question I think I think I I started well I learned step by step to not take I mean it sounds very crazy but not take things personally so if something goes off okay now we are going to focus on the next or we're gonna focus on the solution it sounds really crazy but that helped me a lot to kind of start with So, of course, like massive time management that not always works. So, things are going to fail, things are not going to work out, and like uh there are a lot of deadlines that we're not going to meet. Um, from the entrepreneurial side, I think we have a really good team. So we are three people, me, my uh ex-supervisor, and another co-founder from Cologne. Uh, we are three women, three of us scientists. Um, and I think we get very, very nicely along with each other, and then we we are just very cool-driven, so it works very well. Um I think what really helped me now is the fact that I don't have the external pressures of academia anymore. This is really something that took away so much um so much stress and so much anxiety. And this is maybe why I could take up on the role in the in the company and in the into the entrepreneurship stuff. Because if I would have the same pressures of like, oh, I have to publish and I have to be a successful postdoc because I have plans for the academia, it would not work, unfortunately. During all my PhD, I had zero hobbies. I had zero time for hobbies, I had zero time for something else, and that was really drowning me a lot. And now I feel like with this opportunity to do science for the sake of science, and on the side do something that I'm so passionate about, somehow it just doesn't feel like it's a burden. Yeah, it feels like I can just shift from one thing to another and it makes me so happy. So the moment when it feels like you're just working from deadline to deadline, which always happens in the research, or like you're working for the publication, or working for that third repeat, because otherwise your whole life belong depends on that third repeat to be the way that it was supposed to be on the other two, it's just miserable, unfortunately. And I think that pressures of academia taken away whatever I do at the moment, it's just it's my choice, and it's something that makes me happy. And I think that's why I manage it because I just I mean, I'm not gonna lie, there are always like this times when I stay long up until like I don't know, 11, 12, whatever, but I do something that fulfills me so much that it doesn't even feel a burden. So also my mental health is so much more stable, and I also feel so much more happy because I do something that makes me happy, and I feel like with this constant pressure during PhD and this constant pressure of what's gonna be next if you don't do this or if you're not successful at this, somehow that doesn't exist because I chose that that's not mine anymore. So I kind of quit academia without a little bit quitting it. I see, but yeah, but it really ended up like this. So whatever now I take upon, you know, back in the day I was always thinking that looking at the attitude of European people, that oh, I will kind of do this because that makes me passionate. And then I was not understanding this, you know, like this post-Soviet mindset. I was like, What do you mean passionate? You just do it because you have to do it, you know, like you do it because you need it, or like you do it because you, you know, like you have your reasons and they are very important. But then slowly with age, and after my PhD experience and now with the company and all of these things, I realized that you know, I will only do something that makes me who feel that makes me happy and at peace with myself. If these are things that I don't feel happy about, I will just simply not do it anymore. Yeah, and this is yeah, I guess what makes me still managing, not going crazy yet.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm I'm super happy to hear that for you know, for now you are in a space where you are truly, as you mentioned, it wasn't working in your PhD, but for now you are motivated by the why and the bigger picture, and this is what actually drives you and helps you like not maybe even see it as work as much as yeah, your passion and your uh the thing that fulfills you. But okay, so something um that you mentioned is that you didn't have hobbies in your in your PhD, you didn't have time for hobbies, and for me, like in my line of work, it's like immediately alarm bells are ringing because red flag, red flag, red flag, you know, that means very stressed, and that means propagating the cycle of stress even further into like deeper and deeper into burnout. But what about now? So, what are the like maybe non-negotiable things that refill your cup outside of your passion, your your work, your passion project? And what are the like support systems and support pillars that you have yourself?
Speaker:I think now I have definitely like this kind of small um not traditions but like rituals in a way. Um, I wouldn't say that now I'm playing tennis and I'm running marathons or anything of that. I'm still not very but uh what changed a lot, I mean, my support system was back in the day was obviously my family, but also my boyfriend, ex-fiance, uh slash not example.
Speaker 1:Ex-boyfriend, yeah, no husband.
unknown:Exactly.
Speaker:That's what I wanted to say. But yeah, so um I think the factor of having someone waiting for you after 3 a.m. after incubation or like time point, that was massive, really, and also somebody that under somehow understands you because I mean for some reason I never wanted to date scientists because I felt like all my life is about science and I'm gonna come back home and it's against science. And I was like, I feel like my PhD even affected my relationship choices. I I feel like it got to that point. But you know, it's really hard to people who are not from science to understand all these sacrifices, all these times that you come home at three in the morning completely exhausted, you're sick for three months and you're not getting better. But somehow I was very lucky that I had I have a partner who somehow was very understanding and very supportive of that, and that helped a lot during my PhD, that's for sure. Now uh we definitely have our own kind of routines, we try to stick to it. So before, because before I would just wake up and run to the lap immediately. Now we're like, no, we wake up, we have our coffee together because that's like non-negotiable, because we have to spend that time where we just talk about the day, what are our plans and things like this. So I think we finally actually, when we moved to Cologne, we started having sort of small traditions around the house. And that's looking back, I felt so sad that we never had it before. It was just always like me waking up and running to the lab, and then maybe seeing each other for lunch. Maybe if we're lucky, unless he comes to the lab, we have lunch there, and then seeing each other in the middle of the night when I came back from the lab completely exhausted, not being able to talk. And I felt so sad that we didn't do it earlier, but of course, now we're catching up. And some sort of these small things that we start developing and really paying attention also to our relationship a lot. I remember we moved to Cologne, and the first shock for us was on the weekends. I didn't, I mean, now non-negotiable for me not to work on the weekends. I tried to do the best time planning, the best experimental planning that I would not come on the weekend to the lab. And the first weekend we're sitting, it's Saturday morning looking at each other, and we were like, what should we do with so much time now? Because out of nowhere we just got so much time together, and that was very scary because we were like, Wow, okay, we were not used to having so much time together before, and now we have all this time over the weekend, and yeah, that actually was sad when you're when you're talking about it like this. But it was such an amazing moment where we realized, like, wow, okay, now we have our weekend for ourselves, and of course, we can just coexist, also, he can do his things, I can do my things, but we're there, you know, we're like in the same space, and that actually added so much quality, so much more quality to the relationship that I never thought that actually will.
Speaker 3:But yeah, yeah, I mean, it's also yeah, it's as you said, it's so rare that people who are not in science will understand it and support it, and so he's the the hero as well of the situation. A part of like obviously you are the the main character in this story, but I want to highlight your husband.
Speaker:No, absolutely. Shout out to Patrick. Exactly.
Speaker 3:Um okay, so I there's still so many questions. Like we we haven't caught up in a while, so I still have a lot of questions actually. But I think the time is to start winding down. So I want to just ask a couple of final things, and maybe you know, maybe there is a part two uh somewhere in the work in the future because I still have one topic that I want to touch upon, but that's for me.
Speaker:I know that, and I'm so looking forward to talk about it. Are you specifically? Of course, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Okay, because that's like probably the person. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker:You really uh I mean, I don't know if you would cut this from this part one, but I'm so grateful of all the my crazy psychotic messages that you always take in, and then you always write me these massive messages of like encouragement because honestly, that helped me a lot, really. Like it's not very common when uh you have true feedback, but at the same time very caring and understandable because you're so afraid that you're gonna be judged by it because you said something wrong, or it's just sugarcoated, etc. But I felt like when we touch upon that topic, I felt so seen and hurt by someone that uh because it's not always the case, unfortunately, and for me it means the world. So I'm really looking forward to the second part at some point.
Speaker 3:So let's let's keep let's keep that in mind, let's plan that. And now coming back to final questions. So maybe you know, looking back at your entire journey, is there something that you know you could have or you wish you could have said to younger Asia, Asia at the beginning of your bachelor, maybe, or at the beginning of your master when you just moved to Europe, some words of wisdom, words of advice to your younger self?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean I will just tell you something right before saying it. Um, so during my third uh year when everything got super tough, I decided to go to therapy because I was just not managing myself and I was just not getting it. And there was this exercise which I find that was so helpful, and it was actually the exercise of future me meeting my little me, basically. And I think that kind of envisioning of that conversation and that that helped me a lot, honestly. And I mean, so I will tell you what because I'm so trained now because that exercise has been going on always in my mind. Um, yeah, I would say that wow, you can do so much more than you can even imagine, and and not in a sense that you have to do more or you have to be perfect, or you have to put your hundred or two hundred. It's just you're capable, and it it will hit hard, but you're enough, and this is something that I was I was always lacking of somebody to tell me, and just now I learned to tell it to myself, and that's I think like the biggest win for me personally. It's that you're enough, and you're such a kick ass. Oh, yeah, you can do a lot, but yeah, and just take it easy on you, like just don't be such a bully because you can be bully.
Speaker 3:I'm tearing up here a little bit. Yeah, that's it's true that saying to ourselves that we are enough is oof, it's a big lesson to learn that we yeah, yeah, that maybe we lack that message, and we actually can give that now to ourselves as well. We don't need to we don't we don't need any outside voices to do that.
Speaker:No, no, no. I think you like when you can actually truly tell it to yourself, I think you kind of transcend from all the outside and inner voices because that's what matters, right? Like you fully agree that you're there where you're supposed to be because it's all you.
Speaker 3:I love this. Okay, to finish on a less teary note. Okay, now I want to let's stop now here for a little bit. Um, more maybe a more like fun positive stuff is again a question that I like to ask to my science guests. Um, do you have something random, like some random favorite science fact or something that just blows your mind when you think about it? Something about your field or any other, you know, any any fun fact that you love?
Speaker:Oh my god. Wow, that's such a good question. Wow, I have to think about it. I mean, now whatever comes to mind is actually because I work with pets. So all the fun facts about pet, like fun facts of science, is give them anything. I mean, so okay, but there is a little bit like a pre-story about it. So um, so you know there's this theory that uh the body size correlates with uh the age, uh the years that you you know live. So that's why, for example, the mice they live two years and uh whales they live 200. So in our nature, we have like so many mammals that have hundredfold difference on the years they live, and most of it it's correlated with the body size, but there are only 19 species in this world and this nature that actually are very small, but they live very, very, very long. So, for example, the mouse lives two years, and these 19 species they live in average 30, and out of these 19 species, there is just one which is everybody knows, which is naked mole rat, and 18 of these species are the bats. Oh wow, and yeah, and they're just that's what I'm trying to figure out. Why they finally managed through evolution to just like pick the box or change the switch, but they're so small. The bats that I work with they are so small and they live 37 years, and that's absolutely amazing to me.
Speaker 3:And this is a fun fact about that's that's actually very fun. So thank you for that. Yeah, I didn't expect that.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, so that's um a really exciting direction. Keep me updated because I'm actually very curious.
Speaker:Maybe the part two we will do a little bit science and more personal.
Speaker 3:One last thing, more kind of housekeeping. Where can people follow your work?
Speaker:So share more stuff and okay, so I would say LinkedIn definitely, because we so in LinkedIn I mostly also share about AuroraFit, the company, but also some of the research that we are doing. Um, and we also have a website for AuroraFit, so you can go aurorafit.de, like Germany.de, or I think we have also org, if I'm not mistaken. I have to check that, but DE should work, it should be fine. Um, so yeah, I mean, mostly definitely LinkedIn. Uh I feel like Instagram is just too private, it's only for friends, because there is my completely unhinged version of uh yeah, not society stuff.
Speaker 3:But also, Flora Feed has an Instagram page, right?
Speaker:Yes, absolutely, yes, and then there's also all over.
Speaker 3:Sounds good. Well, thank you so much for bearing your soul, sharing all of that with me. And yeah, indeed, hope for part two with even more personal stuff and personal questions.
Speaker:I am so looking forward, and thank you so much for having me. I told you from the beginning of this that it means the world because I, with all my tough times during PhD, I was always just like, say, yeah, posted something that will help me to go through this hell of a day. And that was always super nice. Thank you. Thank you for all the work you do.
Speaker 3:Your support also means a lot to me. So thank you so much. Well, I'm gonna let you go home finally because you're still at work. So go have to be able to do that. Not a great person.
Speaker:Exactly, not the great person with that.
Speaker 3:I think, I mean, real, as we discussed at the beginning, that's a real person, real image of what different versions of work-life balance can look like. But anyway, go home, enjoy the rest of your evening, and that's it for today. I hope you love this conversation as much as I did. And don't forget to follow Mum's Matt's manuscripts and share it with friends because that will help more people join our coffee fuel chats. Normally coffee, but now it's evening for me, so there's no coffee, but our chats about life, science, motherhood, yoga, balance, mindfulness, and everything in between. And thank you for being here. I'll see you soon.
