Moms, Mats and Manuscripts
Moms, Mats and Manuscripts is a podcast hosted by Ivna, a PhD student in biomedicine, a yoga teacher and a mom, and Ksenia a former molecular biologist, a yoga teacher for scientists and a mom, too. This is a space to talk about all things academia, motherhood and yoga with humour and vulnerability.
We chat about mental health in academia, mindful productivity, and surviving and enjoying early motherhood while bringing yoga wisdom into our lives, share our stories and offer tips on navigating life's chaotic adventures.
Moms, Mats and Manuscripts
S3E6 - On hearing our bodies’ messages (and learning to not ignore them)
In this honest and open conversation, we reflect on how our relationships with our bodies have evolved over the past decade, from student all-nighters and coffee-fueled burnout to a more attuned, mindful approach shaped by yoga, motherhood, and life experience.
We explore:
• What “body awareness” really means
• How chronic stress, anxiety, and burnout show up physically
• Our very different (but equally chaotic) student years
• How practising yoga changed the way we treat ourselves
• The messy process of learning to rest without guilt, especially as moms
• How motherhood redefines what “energy management” looks like
This episode is for anyone who’s ever ignored their body’s signals until it screamed and wants to do things differently. It’s about noticing the red flags sooner, tuning into your real needs, and making peace with not doing all the things, all the time.
Don't forget to like, follow, and share our podcast! We'd love to hear your thoughts and questions, and if you have ideas for future episodes, drop us a line.
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Ksenia's Instagram: shantiscience_yoga
Reach out: moms.mats.manuscripts@gmail.com
Hi, we're Ksenia and Ivna and this is Mums, Maths and Manuscripts,
SPEAKER_01:a podcast where honest conversations flow freely.
SPEAKER_02:We talk about yoga, motherhood, science and all the messy moments in between that shape us.
SPEAKER_01:So grab a cup of your favorite drink, settle in and join us for today's episode.
SPEAKER_02:All right, here we go. Welcome, welcome. Hello, nice to see you. Nice to see you too. So Today is somewhat unplanned, free-flowing conversation. We have a general direction, but again, as always, we don't know where we're going to end up. I wanted to talk to you about being in tune with our bodies. And I think this is going to maybe pull bits and pieces from the conversations we had in the past, because we did talk a little bit about it, about intuition, about feeling in tune with our bodies in our birth experiences and pregnancies. and also how we were not in tune maybe at some point in our academic journey. So I think this is going to be kind of like a patchwork of a lot of the previous conversations, maybe with some additions, but I do want to, I'm curious about your experience with developing more awareness of what's going on in the body, how you can be more attuned to it, how you can kind of give it what it needs and... Yeah, basically yoga and motherhood and academia and your experiences in all these branches included.
SPEAKER_01:This is a topic that really, I think every day I can have a new conversation on it and think of something new because also as we change, as our life situation changes day by day, it's a never-ending conversation, I would say. So... I like how we reiterate on the topic from season to season.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So tell me maybe, Ivna, like 10 years ago, how did she treat her body? How did she interact with her body, with maybe some cues that the body was giving, if you remember anything?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So let's... that's a good question let's travel into the past so 10 years ago i was 20 years old that second year of university i think or so it's bachelor studies funnily enough it was the year when i started yoga first time in my life it was the specific year and i think it was caused by a lot of stress i remember being stressed at the time mostly because um i was you know uh which i'm not today uh night all studying being awake till one two three sometimes even whole night and i remember i i was enjoying it in a way this like quiet hours learning about, I think it was cell biology, the one that is like, that was the most demanding at the time. And there were a lot of going out, drinking beer, low key partying. And if I compare, Today's me with Dan's me. I wouldn't survive this live tempo. But at the time, it somehow worked. I think I was not so much in tune with what is happening. I remember I was like having all the time. How do you say angina is like a throat ache. Now those are the signs that my immunity is on the lower side. And I felt like during the winter, this was my constant state. So I guess my immunity was not the best at the time. And after every exam, I would get sick. I would kind of, you know, survive because I needed to. And then when I kind of relaxed, it would be a mandatory three-day sick period after me. So I think I was pushing the limits of my body at the time. And I think I was always a bit careful. I never got drunk, that I couldn't survive the next day or something like that. And I always tend to eat healthier. It comes from my family. It was how I was raised. I was kind of taking care of myself, but those not sleeping and occasional beers really take toll on my body, I think. And a lot of coffee. That as well. And a lot of coffee. And I think that caused a bit of anxiety and stress. And this was the... period when I noticed I want to feel maybe more relaxed a bit more grounded have more control over it and then I decided to do yoga just to rest my mind a bit and think from there on I stopped drinking like so much coffee I think I was on a five cups a day. You really, you go from cafe to cafe to learn a little bit, to see friends and you order a coffee, not even thinking about it, right? Then you come home, it's 9 p.m. You go and make a cold coffee, for example. So I dropped that. Started cooking more at home because our Mensa meals were not the best. And I would say that 10 years ago, this transformation towards more aware and intuitive existing was born for me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's interesting that I just randomly picked 10 years and then it's the year.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Exactly. It's the year when I first visited the yoga class in a studio in Zagreb. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's very
SPEAKER_01:cool.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So this is the year of the transformation then. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Then let's travel a little bit less into the past. And like, how would you say your... awareness changed and the more you practiced yoga or the more also you matured and grew and your life situation changed?
SPEAKER_01:I think the biggest realization I had was that I cannot produce energy in a way if today I decide to push more that my body can do or try to magically create more energy with Red Bull or coffee, I'm basically stealing the energy from tomorrow. And if I in fact want to build and create energy, it's a long process, which includes eating healthy, resting, taking care of your mind, And this is the only way you will long-term gain energy. You cannot just make energy happen out of nowhere in this given moment.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like this is a reminder that I still need to this day sometimes. I just still need to hear it to be like, okay, I have to stop borrowing from future me and need to start investing into it more mindfully.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a long term. Yeah, it's an investment.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so yeah, I can definitely admit that my attunement or my understanding didn't start that far in the past. What
SPEAKER_01:was Xenia 10 years ago? 10
SPEAKER_02:years ago, it was third year of the university. That was the year of the Erasmus. And I think if I'm really honest with myself, probably this is the first time that I really started hearing some signals from my body. Because when I moved to Sweden for the Erasmus, I was very unwell also physically. I would get sick more often. I immediately started having issues with sleep. Either I could not sleep for half the night or I would just sleep so heavy that I would miss all the alarms and wake up at close to noon and be completely destroyed and feeling like a zombie. I think it was just like maybe the change, like moving from one country that was new to me to another country that was new to me and not feeling very okay, not feeling very happy with my choice, not feeling very happy with the place. I kind of maybe went into a bit of a depressive state and I was still trying to ignore it. and still study and still do things and then maybe yeah this was the body signals that were kind of like something is not something is not right something is not
SPEAKER_00:good
SPEAKER_02:And then also that was 10 years ago, that was the summer that I had the best summer of my life, the summer internship in Paris, which was also like, okay, we have two months in Paris. So let's just live life to the fullest, work hard, play hard, party harder. So it was, I mean, it was amazing, but it was also taking a toll definitely on my body. There was quite a bit of drinking and late nights and going out and then still going to work the next day. And I think the last few nights of the whole project, of the whole process, we had like a symposium. which all the programs from your all European sites would go to Cambridge and we had a symposium in Cambridge and basically like nobody was sleeping for the last few days because this was like the last days together plus all these other people from all these other sites we'd like we need to live life to the fullest and and then I think throughout my last year of my bachelor and then the year of the master's degree it was kind of more of the same I would I would not treat my body very well. There would be a lot of coffee. There would be some amount of alcohol and like not really good amounts of alcohol at times. I would still try to cook for myself mainly because I was a broke student. So eating at home is just cheaper than going out. But sometimes there would be just I am the kind of person that I don't like to cook for myself. I like to cook for myself and others.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So for myself, it always takes time. shapes of like pasta with one sauce today and pasta with another sauce tomorrow or fried eggs today and scrambled eggs tomorrow so it's not very inventive or not very interesting and i would maybe also sometimes buy the like ready-made meat meals that you can reheat in the microwave which is also not the healthiest choice but it's a convenience convenience choice and i was always justifying it like i'm saving myself time because i don't need to cook i don't need to clean i just
SPEAKER_00:But
SPEAKER_02:looking back at it, I'm like, oh my goodness. I was just treating my body like absolute crap. And I would have issues with my skin. I would have issues with my digestion. I would have issues with my cycle. And I would just think that, well, it is what it is. It is how everybody lives. Everybody struggles with these things. And... it will somehow magically pass in the future. It will somehow heal itself. And it never did. And I was like, well, maybe that's just my life. And at that time, I never really stopped to think that maybe it's not my life. Maybe it's my body trying to kind of please Xenia, notice me, do something about it and change your ways a little bit. But yeah, I never actually started to think about it until... I moved to Portugal, which was end of 2017, early 2018. And this is where eventually, a few months after that, I started yoga. And there I started having more obvious signals, like my eye twitching all the time or like some... not really panic attacks, but more like going in the direction of this kind of physical reactions to stress. And this is when I was thinking, okay, that, you know, maybe this is it. Maybe this is not exactly how life should be. This is not exactly how bodies should work for a young person. And then after I started yoga and started noticing that, actually, I feel... better during this one hour and then this feeling of calm and contentment kind of starts dissipating into my and like seeping into my weekend because the yoga class would be on friday and friday afternoon and then i would feel better throughout the weekend and then the week would be again shit but then next friday i would again feel a little bit better and again the weekend would be good and i started thinking huh you know i i do feel the difference And from there on, I think I started paying more attention to how stress affects me. It still took me a while to kind of do a little bit more and put a bit more effort into it and kind of clean up the eating habits. I was still drinking a lot of coffee. I mean, coffee in Portugal was A amazing and B very cheap. So I was like, just give me all the
SPEAKER_00:coffee.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, then after moving here and after having again moved back to my old patterns of overwork, self-neglect and treating my body like crap, and having burned out severely and experiencing gastritis for it and also a heap of other health issues. After that, I finally kind of arrived to the conclusion that a lot of these things are not... I mean, they are health issues, but they are not coming from the fact that my body is somehow broken. These are responses to years of stress chronic stress and self-neglect. And then from there, I think, so it was here and maybe already even after I quit my PhD, so let's say five years-ish ago, when I finally started cleaning up my act a bit more. And also I eventually realized that actually the more I practice yoga and meditation and like all the aspects, not just the physical practice, the more the effect also covers out other areas of my life like diet because i don't have cravings for as much as i do yeah i don't practice
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_02:Which is, it was very interesting. So it's more, I think it's more about the increased and improved body awareness and the fact that you notice more how maybe uncomfortable you start feeling after eating certain foods. Like let's say you devour a pack of Pringles and then you feel like,
SPEAKER_00:and
SPEAKER_02:the more you notice, then the less you crave it. So... I was kind of surprised to realize that actually I don't eat as much junk. I don't want as much junk because I am much more aware of how my body responds to it. And yeah, I think now I... There's ups and downs, of course, but there is definitely much more awareness of how my body responds to different foods, to different stimulations and different... levels of stress and i mean now the life looks very different with a child but um i do try to like hit the warning and if my body starts again giving me the eye twitching then i i know that okay something needs to change i don't
SPEAKER_01:just and i guess you were you will more quickly return to the rhythm right this jump from the oh i'm noticing some weird flags that my body is sending me it will last maybe day two, three for you to recognize and implement all the healing steps, let's say, to jump back into the routine that works for your body, that recharges it, right? So I think this jump is much quicker. Before, I guess, before we needed years and years to figure out the path from eating Pringles entering the loop of junk food and escaping it. And now we know better tools and ways to escape the loop.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, also, I think, yeah, we were so far below the baseline that it took us a while to kind of climb towards it. But now it's a little bit faster, definitely, because you don't allow yourself to go that far down.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Have you noticed that this increased awareness also improved your health in other aspects?
SPEAKER_01:I think, yeah. Yeah, I noticed that I get sick less and less.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, can I stop you for a second? We will edit out. I hear a lot of crackling when you speak. Can you check that your mic is plugged correctly? I will try to clean it up, but then just to check this.
SPEAKER_01:You know what? My battery is empty. Can you hear me now?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. But I still hear the crackling sound.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. What about now?
SPEAKER_02:It still sounds weird.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, now?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Do you want to try to then switch to Mac microphone, but then I can maybe adjust the volume a little bit or try to adjust the volume?
SPEAKER_01:I think now it should work better. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:yeah,
SPEAKER_01:yeah, perfect.
SPEAKER_02:You're back.
SPEAKER_01:No noise, yes. Okay, so the question was if I notice... health improvement, right? Yeah. I will start soon. Regarding the health improvement, yeah, I definitely noticed some differences, which was this constant throat ache finished. And I noticed getting sick less and less during winter. Mm-hmm. Of course, occasionally there will be a cold where the season is, but the biggest change I noticed is increasing energy. And this one didn't happen overnight. For this one, I think it took more than half year to notice significant change. And this was just... waking up in a good mood, which was rarely the case with me. I would wait for an hour or two before having a first cup of coffee. And I would just notice my body is working better without any stimuli. And I started enjoying this feeling of having a lot of energy. I mean, right now I'm still figuring out how to get to this point of feeling super energetic. I think when a little kid, this is more difficult to achieve. But, you know, it's just this super, super nice feeling of being healthy.
SPEAKER_00:When you
SPEAKER_01:eat something good that doesn't make you tired after eating it. This feeling is something that I had more and more. I mean, I still like to indulge in a carb-full meal that makes me take a little nap after it. It's nice. But I think once you jump into this well-being, healthy eating, healthy habits game, you can really get addicted to feeling strong and having energy, not being tempted by sweets or so. I enjoyed having also periods where I didn't eat sweets for months. I kind of felt, you know, oh, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Now I'm, of course, balancing all. I enjoy having chocolate when I'm tired, you know. But there are some super duper healthy periods that I guess I will have once more in my life.
SPEAKER_02:I see. I don't want us to also seem like we're promoting a complete black or white joyless.
SPEAKER_01:But I think in this kind of health journey you have to try all the different aspects and see you know this is for me this is not for me because also like being super healthy and obsessed with being healthy is not super healthy
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:so i i think it all comes to searching for a balance and
SPEAKER_02:definitely i think it's a it's a balancing act and um i mean when we talk about foods I think it's, it's again, coming back to the piece of like more awareness of how you react to them. And like, in my case, I think it's as, as I said, like there is just less craving for maybe sweets or less craving for whatever, but like I would still eat it or allow myself to eat it if I wanted, but there's just kind of less intense desire or more ability to control myself and, and not like over indulge or overeat because sometimes like your eyes can eat more than your stomach can and then you are I don't know all you can eat brunch with all you can eat sweets and you're like I want to eat everything and then it's kind of like please stop and then I think now I'm much more able to stop instead of thinking I paid for this all you can eat brunch so I need
SPEAKER_01:to yeah yeah let's let's also eat breakfast and lunch so that you could not be hungry for lunch and then you just end up feeling super tired for three hours after this meal yeah yeah yeah that's that's also I noticed you know those first all you can eat breakfasts were oh my god I would like keep returning for a portion three or four times and then like packing a croissant for later as well sneaking out and now when you get to know your body I'm like I know that the best breakfast I can get there is omelette for me for example I get this maybe some like muesli and that's it because I know I will feel the best after this kind of meal right but before once you see all this food I was also crazy super crazy yeah
SPEAKER_02:And I think it also probably comes down to then how you are able to rest and how you are able to deal with like guilt of resting versus knowing that this refills your cup, like after you develop a little bit more awareness about your body signals and how it functions probably at least that i think that's the case for me that i'm able to maybe not especially now with my son like i i would i'm able to take a nap instead of thinking no i have to push through and um just like rest even if i'm not sleeping i can just put my feet up and relax and that's awareness of what my body needs in the moment helps me to feel less guilty in a way about it because I know that there will be time for work there will be energy for work or for any other like house care household care but my body needs this now to function so I should not feel guilty sometimes I still do obviously but that's just mom life but yeah Yeah, but was it your feeling as well?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, a big shift in this mom life. I always, when Adrian would nap, had a feeling that I need to clean the kitchen, clean this or that. And I would go to do this immediately and I was like, then I will rest. But now it shifted. I now choose rest first because I... I don't want to do anything feeling bad and tired. It's something that now I refuse to do. And then firstly, I would go to rest and it might happen that after 10 minutes, after 30 minutes of resting, I would feel even better, even more motivated to clean or that I will feel, oh no, not cleaning today. Not today. Not today. Yeah. And this idea of I want to feel my best at any moment. Allows me to choose rest when I need rest. And if I have excess energy, I will go to clean because also clean apartment also makes me feel good. But on some days when I would be so tired, no, there's no such a clean apartment that could make me feel good, right? Then the rest is the thing that I need. So it's a kind of, I guess, optimizing game. When will I feel the best? Because I also don't want to be grumpy. I also don't want to be irritated when playing with him. And that's something that I want to optimize now. And this was this mind shift that happened maybe half a year ago where I was like, this dish will not, dishes will not go anywhere. It can wait me until I have a nap, until I put the leg on a wall and rest. And I think it's a good approach because as I mentioned, we don't have, we don't have endless amount of energy these days and we need to conserve it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I mean, for what matters, right?
SPEAKER_01:For what matters.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:dishes do matter but like ultimately long term our children and our presence with them in the end is what's more important than a super neat and tidy and cleanest apartment
SPEAKER_01:yeah and you learn like i can just quickly clean the table i can open i don't have to put all the dishwasher to wash I can clean one dish by hand that I need for this following meal right so I think you you'll learn how to prioritize and what can be done and what can wait for another day or another hour yeah
SPEAKER_02:I think so regarding this particular aspect like with small children I think at the beginning I was really bad at this so nap times would be like laundry and cleaning and this and that so especially at the beginning there is a lot of laundry
SPEAKER_01:oh yes
SPEAKER_02:but I I mean not with my son at the beginning because when he was awake I couldn't do much but now that he's becoming more and more independent and he's able to play by himself and do things just alone without my involvement I often prefer to do like I don't do anything during his nap times or when he sleeps that I cannot do when he's awake. So I can load and unload the dishwasher or clean the table or wash the dishes or put the laundry or hang the laundry. I can do it when he's awake. And if he's allowing me, if he doesn't need me to be there with him for playing, I will do that. If not, I will play with him. But during nap times or sleeping, I try to either do something that I need to focus. Either it's work or it's just me or my husband. And talking to him, interacting with him, working on the relationship instead of constantly talking logistics of the family and our son.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm
SPEAKER_01:trying. It's a good one, yeah. Now it's like few hours for yourself when they nap. And this is precious. And it
SPEAKER_02:does, as you said, it does kind of put energy back into us. And it's like an investment that is growing our energy instead of preserving it
SPEAKER_01:and
SPEAKER_02:wasting
SPEAKER_01:it. And when they were little dog snaps, you never knew if they will last for five minutes. you were like oh let's do as much as I can and I remember I was being super stressful during those times because I didn't know if I can take a shower if I can cook a lunch or if he will wake up in three seconds right exactly
SPEAKER_02:so
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:I think it's I don't know how I will react obviously when or if it happens again but I hope that I will be much more chill and thinking like things can actually wait like if I especially if I don't know if my child sleeps for five minutes or four hours just lay down yeah just lay down and you know if you read for five minutes it's good if you read for four hours it's also good
SPEAKER_01:even better
SPEAKER_02:yeah yeah so obviously we went a little bit off topic yeah
SPEAKER_01:but um
SPEAKER_02:yeah
SPEAKER_01:it's a free flow conversation right uh but yeah the next episode will be a super interesting one that goes maybe more into the details of how to what can be done to make your hormone health better make your productivity better um
SPEAKER_02:So it's kind of building off a little bit of what we talked about today and like awareness and trying to listen, understand and kind of follow the body cues a little bit and this is an interview that I recorded with a hormone health expert so it's going to be more relevant probably to people who have cycles but still I think it's an interesting topic for discussion because we don't We often don't think in these categories. And for me, when I first learned about this, it was kind of eye-opening. And when I started doing a little bit, like little bits and pieces of more like aligning my life with my cycle or aligning nutrition with my cycle or certain workouts, maybe, I noticed such a big difference. And it was incredible that actually such tiny tweak or not a very big tweak can have such an effect. So looking forward to everybody hearing also this conversation, I think.
SPEAKER_01:I would be also super curious to hear about it. I'll be there to listen to it and looking forward very much.
SPEAKER_02:Perfect. All right. Then today we are winding down and just as a last, last moment question, um, Do you have any rapid fire trick or tip or technique how to tune into what your body is saying in the moment?
SPEAKER_01:Stepping back if I'm in a situation that is too loud and too... What's the right word? Too stimulating. The one that firstly came to my mind was my son screaming, having a tantrum. And I like to just step back mentally from this moment, take a breather, and then see what is happening, try to understand. And this is my reaction that wants me to also scream in the moment. But I'm like, okay, this is what is happening. Let's try to act peacefully, calmly. And this is the practice. When it's not such an intense situation, I tend to practice it and it's easier for me to step back. So this is like a micro skill that I'm recently developing. Whenever any... small inconvenience happen i like to notice it i like to practice stepping back for example minor inconvenience is my dog starting to bark on the neighbor when they walk through the hall i will not get um irritated on it but i'm noticing i'm noticing that maybe my heart starts meeting faster and i'm like okay stepping back and i think with this you can slowly build a muscle of stepping back in a situation that are more difficult for the nervous system. What would be yours?
SPEAKER_02:I think, like, obviously, I don't want to kind of promote hypochondria and people noticing every single little like thing and itch or pain or whatever in the body. But I do think that noticing some physical symptoms or kind of things like hunger and thirst, it's also a muscle that you need to build. And you need to learn to stop ignoring it, especially if you've spent years in... the mode of like I'm so I'm super busy so I'm not going to go to the bathroom I'm not going
SPEAKER_00:to
SPEAKER_02:drink my water or I'm going to forget to have lunch and breakfast and dinner for whatever so I think noticing these cues or like trying to train yourself to notice these cues and not ignore them but actually replying to them it also then helps your body to feel safer and And feel better ultimately because
SPEAKER_00:it's
SPEAKER_02:like a child. If a child knows that you're going to respond to their bits for connection, for attention, for help, they are ultimately going to become more independent, not less independent. If your responsiveness is not guaranteed, then probably they're going to be more clingy and more have maybe potentially more issues and it's the same I think it's the same kind of with our bodies if your response to the body cues is not guaranteed your body cues are going to go a little bit out of whack so training yourself to listen to even like my mouth is dry what's your first response okay you go drink some water or maybe you are thinking my mouth is dry let me spend four more hours working and then I will go and refill my water bottle then your body is going to be a little bit upset at you probably.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think this is a good one. Building trust in your body that your body can expect help from you when it sends some cues. It's a good
SPEAKER_02:one. It's not easy, but I think it's... especially with people with like very busy careers or people who are very focused on their work their studies and they tend to forget these things it's um then more difficult to relearn this pattern of like being more responsive and actually feeling the the feelings feeling the the body cues but it's worth it i would say
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah For this one, I get super irritated when I'm thirsty. So for me, it's like whenever I feel any kind of thirst, I'm there. It's also like going to bathroom. I'm impressed how people can continue working when they have these urges. I think... I'm the one who was going to drink something or for a bathroom every 20-30 minutes when I was working. So I think with this one I might even wait for longer. I was like just looking for an excuse not to work, right? To do something.
SPEAKER_02:But I mean, sometimes it's warranted because we also need regular breaks. And if we are not willing to give them ourselves voluntarily, then we need to drink more water so that we can go to the bathroom.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's a way. It's a way.
SPEAKER_02:A way, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Whatever works in the end. Whatever works, we make it work.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:those were a really nice unexpected question in the end I will have in mind we just need to work on this muscle of responding to the needs of our body because in the end I think there's no us and our body we are one and we need to treat it as a one being not to place it on a priority B list
SPEAKER_02:We tend to eventually learn to override this and override the signals and everything gets a little bit deprioritized. Like, I will do that later. Or sometimes, I don't know, you have a health concern and you're thinking, I will check that later. I will go to the doctor later. And everything is later, later, later. And yeah, we forget that there is no job or... Anything, any project, any goal, any dream without our health first and foremost. So we cannot continue reaching our dreams or putting energy and attention into work or into our families if we are not healthy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And often we came to this conclusion when it's too late. So let's just remember this even when we are healthy and let's maintain this.
SPEAKER_02:yeah
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:okay that's a good final takeaway
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah it was a good conversation as usual as always with you
SPEAKER_02:yeah all right then thank you so much for uh sharing thank you so much for talking to me and yeah your listeners
SPEAKER_01:next episode yes good wishing you a lovely day you too all of you see you next time
